EOS 댄라리머 AMA(무엇이든지 물어보세요!) 한국 EOS 커뮤니티와의 만남 / 투자자라면 한번 보실것을 추천드립니다. #이오스 #EOS #댄라리머
조회수 5291회 • 2021. 04. 08.
매너 채팅 부탁드립니다. 질문은 채팅창에 올려주셔도 되지만, 가능하면 불리오스(이오스 텔레그램)에서 부탁드립니다. 패널로 참석 ...
daniel we already have 158 people it's quick everyone is foreign uh yeah so my name is i am the founder of note one um i'm running a note for eos and uh today we're gonna have a one hour and a half session with the the former city of uh plot one and the founder of eos dan larimer yeah um [Music] um is max joe i'm pretty much spending my whole 24 hours for the eos community especially for the korean eos community and uh yeah it's it's it's a great opportunity to talk with stan lerma for today max is known as a max bot because he's everywhere in all telegram channels right to the kids foreign hi my name is eddie yee i am a professor in congo university i have been a member of u.s alliance a few a few months ago but and the voice was a little bit uh disrupting so but he's also glad to join this uh talk today hi my name is which is the korean community for eos one um i have been moderating the korean and chinese and american communities once it was launched two years ago my name is kelly mann i'm i'm running a youtube channel which has over 10 000 followers right now and we um i have been admiring dan lerman so it's a great honor to meet you um so we have another two reporters uh joining uh for today and uh they will ask questions and we're gonna relate to you too [Music] why why don't you start uh a 10-minute talk about your recent um uh moves and and how yours is going forward recently and after that we're going to come up with the questions from the audiences thank you i'd like to start by thanking everyone for having me here and for taking the time to to join today yeah i got into blockchain space because i had a mission to create free market solutions for securing life liberty property and justice for all the crypto spaces social media [Music] for the past three years i've been working at block one i guess four years i guess now it's been working at block one to um build the esio core software but unfortunately i i was not able to contribute to the community of eos as directly as i am able to now that i am out of block one okay when we first introduced eos back four years ago we presented foreign i had always envisioned that the eos blockchain would have a budget of inflation or up to five percent per year to be used to fund community projects on that it became clear pretty early uh in the life of eos that the incentives of the token holders were to vote for kickbacks and not necessarily to fund public goods so i've spent the past couple years searching for solutions to ensure that the people who are using the blockchain can uh govern the chain and direct funds to trusted individuals instead of to the pockets of those with the most tokens last year i took the time to put all the ideas that i came up with in my new book more equal animals which has been translated to korean or is in the process of being translated into the core idea of the book is how do we maximize the freedom and independence and power of the individual even as groups of individuals are coming together for a common cause what we realize is that two people working together are stronger than the sum of their parts [Music] [Music] when we have multiple people working together there is a need to reach consensus that represents the people and not a false consensus controlled by media or influence or some other corruption of the consensus the most important feature of any democratic system is that it protects the power of the people to reach a new consensus the goal is to eliminate political advantage political parties incumbent advantage and in other sources of corruption of the democratic process and ensure that everyone is able to uh influence and have a say in the governance process [Music] so i've taken the ideas in the book and applied it to the eos network to create a new governance process to allocate community resources to hundreds of trusted individuals the goal is to leverage the wisdom of the crowds to scale the consensus process and to get funding to the many projects in the korean chinese and english-speaking communities to make eos great again behind the general process that will be used is uh it's an invite-only system where everything is recorded on video calls such as this so that everyone knows that everyone who's participating is a real person and that they're only participating once and therefore protects the democracy in order to prevent collusion or political parties the members of the governance system are randomly assigned to groups of approximately 10 people and they have to reach a 8 of 10 consensus to elect the first round of representatives once you have the first round representatives you repeat the process by grouping them into groups of 10 and so forth until you uh elected a leader in foreign and then the network can automatically allocate a budget to all the representatives a proportional to how far they advanced in the process could the eos network would be divided into several communities an english-speaking community a chinese community a korean community and a spanish community because everyone who's participating needs to be able to speak the same language and ideally live in the same time zone community recently [Music] the goal is to fund each community with an equal portion of inflation once the communities reach the significant size and then each community to provide its own independent infrastructure everything from wallets to block explorers to media or whatever else the communities require um foreign with the common goal between all communities to see eos it as a currency and to maximize the independence of the uh eos ecosystem as a whole name [Music] um it is through this process that i believe that we can collaborate to fund far more development on the eos network in a far more decentralized manner a far more parallel manner than anything that block one has been able to deliver today i am committed to see the eos network adopted as a currency and to maximize its decentralization and i believe that this new consensus algorithm which we call eden os will make eos the most democratic and most decentralized and most representative governance blockchain on in the cryptocurrency space all right that's all i have to say are there any questions foreign um then you always mentioned that in order to solve the scalability issues of bitcoin uh we can use eos to boost up that process what is your solution towards that attempt and how will it affect the eos community eos ecosystem as a whole one of the things that seems to unite everyone as a desire to see the value of the eu's token rise and i believe the best way to see the value of the eos token rise is to view eos as a currency that we use for everything uh and with respect to bridging bitcoin over you know to participate in d5 applications on eos that is helpful um and there are lots of people that are wrapping bitcoin and putting it on eos and more and more progress is being made every day however if the eos community adopts bitcoin as a currency on eos it will um reduce the value of eos compared to the eos community adopting the use of eos as a currency for everything and not relying on bitcoin at all um so there's a there's a big child you um yes what i believe needs to happen is the tools for using eos as a currency for transferring for payments for online storefronts and marketplaces like we see in venezuela those things need to be supported and funded d5 applications that use eos as collateral need to be supported if we want to see the value of eos grow to the maximum extent possible venezuela um recently google announced that they will use eosio as a software for their compute confidential computing module um could you maybe elaborate a little bit and explain to the listeners um what's it's about and how it functions why they adopted it my understanding is that google cloud was presenting their infrastructure as being ideal for eos and esio chains to run in the cloud not necessarily that they're using eosio for their cloud implement the benefit of deploying your nodes to google's secure compute cloud is that your private keys and the deterministic computation are theoretically more secure than under more traditional cloud infrastructure um and this is particularly important for doing things like inter-blockchain communication where you want to automate the signing of transactions from one chain based on transactions occurring on another chain blockchain communications the downside to google cloud is the dependence on google and their ability to shut down applications that they don't like and so it's not necessarily a good idea to have the community build a lot of infrastructure dependent upon google but it is nice to have them as one of many options do you get last night i got about three hours of sleep uh but yesterday it's good that you sleep not too much you're working hard for the community foreign um so from an investor perspective um i'm curious how their perception and awareness of eos inside inside the u.s is and in 2019 there has been announced that eos is uh doing collaboration with coinbase and i'm curious um how much interest is in in the u.s market as a whole in terms of eos um a special rate to grayscale wow okay um block one's primary focus has been the development of eosio and not necessarily the promotion of eos or the adoption of eos and this is largely due to regulatory concerns block one has provided support for exchanges such as coinbase uh to the extent that the support is focused on the use of the esio software what has been missing is even something as simple as a website or a home page that introduces people to eos instead everything is directing people to block one which introduces them to eosio without mentioning eos [Music] one of the reasons why we need enos is to have community leaders that can be elected and they can speak on behalf of the community with uh power and authority when they are engaging with exchanges and other people looking to build on eos foreign i would say that generally speaking the sentiment uh in the uh west has turned 180 degrees in the past couple months since i've left block one and uh started engaging directly with the community foreign please foreign can you explain in easy words how somebody who doesn't know eos at all can join the eden community the eating community is intentionally invite only which means that we start with the tree a seed of trust with a community leader such as some of the people on this call and they will then invite other people to join and because it's invite only as you're inviting them uh you're you can onboard them you can explain it to them it is not a system where you can just show up with some money and get in that is necessary in order to protect the integrity of the culture uh and prevent abuse of the uh community resources [Music] so um the question is for me um so i always want to split my online identity and and the real identity so in terms of anonymity so but but voice um it it forces you to um kind of reveal your personal self to the online space in terms of anonymity do you have any project in mind that um supports this anonymous anonymous self um to the online space in the online space to explain a little bit more yeah sorry um so how anonymity could could work out with eden and you know yeah anonymity that's the key question yeah so with eden uh the only requirement is that you can appear on video you can appear under any name you like now that's not necessarily completely private from government who can have their databases link the two but it is a critical component to preventing civil attacks where one person attempts to join the community multiple times and therefore undermine the democracy of eden if you would like to contribute anonymously then you can do so by asking the representatives that are elected to fund the projects that you are working you don't necessarily need to apply for the funds yourself uh in fact i would expect that uh the way this will ultimately end up working is there'll be lots of different companies in the space with dedicated teams uh they don't have to get directly elected instead those people who are elected will determine which companies deserve grants uh so if you wanted to join eden there's no way for you to stay anonymous uh correct you don't have to give your government id but you do have to give your face and appear on video um [Music] foreign there will be people who support the anonymous individual and [Music] and don't necessarily need to be directly associated or involved with them and they can then fund the anonymous individual um foreign [Music] is [Music] many of us in the korean community have read your proposal about staking poll then only in 2019 i think it was 19 or 20. um and then in that article you said um so the price of the staking pool will positively impact the price of eos tokens so what's the relationship you see there the sticking pole and the use price all right so the staking pools which i believe the code for that will be released imminently um will align the long-term incentives with the delegated proof-of-stake governance by locking up eos for months or years at a time and transferring more voting power to those who stake for longer periods of time this takes eos out of circulation and also will remove some of the centralized power of exchanges which uh can't stake user tokens for long periods of time and therefore their voting power will be decreased so combined with the increased decentralization of voting influence and the incentive to align long-term value with the growth of eos you know the hope is that it will increase the um the quality of the governance decisions and then therefore the value of the token of course i cannot guarantee that any particular measure will uh cause the price of eos to go up okay or use the sticking [Music] is foreign um um then olivia many many years ago you you have discussed about a scalability issue with satoshi nakamoto on bitcoin.org and then you came up with the uh with the solution with eos help of solving this scalability issue so how do you plan to realize that on the network and how it's going to be realized right so the challenge of scaling is to scale while remaining decentralized and the eos blockchain is already the most scalable in terms of transactions per second on a single chain it's you know been able to do up to 10 000 in ideal conditions and over you know several thousand on neo's main net transactions per second the thing that we need to do now is scale the infrastructure of api nodes so that it's possible for people to deploy applications without the need of running their own infrastructure in their own servers currently we are not using anywhere near the capacity that eos supports and therefore the most important thing for us to focus on short term is the decentralization of our infrastructure and sustainability of the business models of the people who are deploying on eos if that is successful then we can have multiple eos chains uh now that we've got eden consensus protocol it's possible to have sister chains governed by eden-like communities that also use eos as the currency instead of having their own token for the currency of the sister chains i think that's how we scale it [Music] um [Music] yeah you mentioned that eos should be recognized as a global currency um what do you think is the reason why eos should be recognized a global currency ins uh rather than bitcoin ethereum or other stable coins what do you think i'm sorry uh because there's a besides the ether or bitcoin there's stellar is that aiming to be the same thing and then there's a more competitors in the market who wants to be layered to or like currency uh the concept as a currency change first and foremost blockchain ecosystems are about a community of people working together and for a community to have independence they need to have their own currency so i think there's room to have many many different currencies out there and that you don't have to have a currency maximalist you um secondly uh the the way i see bitcoin and ethereum and these other less scalable coins going is that they're actually less divisible in gold and silver if you look at the transaction fee and there and then figure out the smallest amount that you can economically transfer it's a smaller gold coin is actually more divisible than bitcoin and ethereum uh what that means is that these uh less scalable currencies are going to end up in the vaults of banks uh and that people won't actually transact in bitcoin and ethereum therefore there won't be currencies there'll be reserves for assets of financial institutions which means they will no longer be peer-to-peer digital cash it would be a bank settlement layer uh eos because of its scalability has the potential to actually be a currency that people use peer-to-peer it's because of its low latency you can actually use it like a credit card in the marketplace and it is being used that way in venezuela venezuela right now when it would not be possible to use bitcoin or ethereum or some of these other networks in that same environment so i think eos is more divisible simply because of its low transaction fees and its high scalability which makes it the ideal currency for people who want to not put it back into a banking infrastructure and want to actually spend um foreign [Music] [Music] um [Music] foreign so um then uh from starting from steemit uh to voice and um now clarion you seem to be a lot interested into building a social media so what's uh what's the best uh behind story um towards that person yeah i'm primarily interested in building communities because communities use currencies and governance requires communication and if you don't have a decentralized platform to communicate you cannot reach consensus at the higher level of the community which way you're going to go and so it's all about creating independence for the communities and independence for the currency in foreign the same infrastructure that you use for a social network can be used for something like ebay to advertise products you'd like to sell sell and therefore solving the use case of the social network is also providing the right type of infrastructure for decentralized commerce so next question from congress from the uh d street so so eden is basically a doll so how i'm sorry oh so um today you explained us about eden is it is it a dao and uh how different is uh the clarion that you recently developed from voice and um the question is would voice add eden and clarion how are they going to work together sure i'll start with voice and clarion they are 180 degrees voice is largely centralized uh on a private blockchain with all kinds of government regulation and uh it's not a censorship resistant platform clarion is completely logically decentralized uh it's not even a blockchain it's a way for you to share content with your friends and family without relying on any server uh it's it's more decentralized than federated systems like email systems foreign the second part of the question was is even a dao yes eden is a dao uh what's different about eden is the governance process of the dao aims to represent a true democracy instead of a shareoccracy or a tokenocracy and the benefit of that is it's truly democratic instead of succumbing to the pareto principle under the pareto principle control tends to fall into the hands of the very wealthy like the one percent end up with 51 percent of the influence and other attempts at trying to do massive decentralized budgeting like steemit uh saw how um how that was abused because there wasn't actually a representation of the people it was a representation of the capital [Music] foreign youtube foreign in your book you mentioned uh that there is in in democracy there is a lot of collusion going on and did you have eos in mind and the things that i the way i see it is that maybe it's it's the number of bp because it's restricted to 21 um only that might lead to some collusions um haven't you thought about a larger number of bps and why did you come up with the number 21 all right the issue with bps is not the number of bps it's the distribution of capital voting for block producers that distribution is allocated under a pareto curve which means uh 20 percent of the people control 80 of the capital and one percent of the people control 51 of the capital which means that 21 people uh are going to control the vast majority like the top 21 wealthiest uh individuals are going to control almost everything anywhere uh and so if you increase the number of block producers you're not actually increasing the decentralization of the network um um foreign in addition to the pareto distribution of the tokens there's diminishing marginal utility of additional block producers so each additional one you add is adding less value to the decentralization than the previous one but each additional block producer has the same cost in terms of infrastructure on the network and at a certain point it's not economical to add more the reality is all the other networks that claim to have more than 21 are not doing so sustainably economically or there's some kind of uh collusion going on or uh civil attacks going on to make it appear that there are more people than uh than the 21. sometimes foreign closely i'm sorry gone down yeah yeah lastly the um the security of the network is somewhat dependent upon the trust that we put in the block producers both to make multi-sig decisions but also to report on cpu time which means the network is only as secure as the least secure block producer as you add more it's easier and easier for a bad actor to get into the block producer set which means we would have to do other trade-offs in terms of performance and latency in order to accommodate additional block producers which in turn would then raise the costs of the network and decrease the scalability of of the network i believe that a solution like eden which maximizes the decentralization of power and the influence of each individual has more people contributing to the consensus of how the network's going to be run is actually the most important aspect of decentralizing the network and with something like eden it would actually be possible to reduce the number of block producers without really compromising the decentralization of the network [Music] um [Music] so um you mentioned that in for clarion os you could use a token internally can we can can you use eos as a token or do you have do you have another clarion token in mind clarion is not a blockchain at its base layer it's also uh doesn't have any tokens required however one of the goals of clarion is to maximize the decentralization which means maximizing the ability to broadcast from anybody understand anyone to broadcast to everyone and therefore you need a consensus algorithm to prevent spam because there's only so many people again speak on the channel i do have a new consensus algorithm that i came up which is based upon proof of burn the idea is that instead of rewarding block producers with new tokens there's a negative block reward every block produced is reducing the token supply which maximizes the the freedom of speech because there's no elections uh in order to sustain uh control of the channel you have to continually buy and burn tokens which pushes the price up so it's not sustainable to get a monopoly over this and lastly instead of being a chain like eos which is so big that the average person is not going to run it on their home computer clarion would be composed of hundreds or thousands of chains like this that are doing one transaction per second in this manner and those clarion chains could be air dropped on a token like eos for the initial distribution and then used as a means of propagating the idea is that individual users would subscribe with clarion to one or more of these smaller chains and they only have to get the data they care about instead of having to process all the data from all the chains in order to to function that was a a later phase of of clarion development and clarion can also integrate with eos for something like account name registration uh and and public profiles so i see clarion working well with eos uh that is eventually going to support these micro or micro chains if you will that air drop on eos and those things together all enhance the eos ecosystem [Music] uh in the past there has been an announcement from block one to create a mining pool using eos io what are the advantages of using eos io for the mining pool for bitcoin i don't i wasn't involved in that particular aspect of block one so i don't know what advantages they had in mind one of the advantages that i could see is you can use esio to reach consensus on what transactions should be included in the block as well as to automate the distribution of fees when the block is finally produced so adds transparency to a mining pool um i don't necessarily think it will add to the efficiency of the pool such as all foreign so um there is a anticipation that um that the picture is 3.0 that you designed is identical to the bot one's bullish which is uh seems to like be a encrypted exchange what are the advantages for bullish to in terms of the connection to eos mainnet and their inter in inter operability between the two entities the algorithm behind bullish is derived from ideas for a bit shares 3.0 concept it was designed to operate on a us io blockchain i'm not free to discuss any other details about bullish until block one publishes the information okay i just wanted okay yeah uh currently [Music] are you happy am i happy i have been far happier these past three months since i've been able to engage with the community it's really great to be back in the eos working on decentralized foreign in your latest interview um you mentioned that you have additionally bought more eos was that an investment decision or is it was that um based on your actual needs for your next projects where you would spend a very new stake eos for example i'm i was optimistic and i wanted more skin in the game to um participate with the rest of the community and the growth that i anticipate is that said i can't promise that it's going to go up and you know please don't make investment decisions based upon actions i've taken okay um what's your hobby my hobby uh i've got hobbies that i'd like to do which would uh include uh managing a my own farm of some kind um but yeah in terms of you know most things i do is i just talk philosophy and blockchain and decentralization um that's what i live and breathe [Music] so recently um scc kind of approved that bitcoin and ethereum are a decentralized currency um how much do you see about the possibility that sec acknowledges eos as being a truly decentralized currency as well uh i suspect that they'll probably agree it is that i don't know what they will do they're the governments they are unpredictable [Music] generally speaking my understanding is if it's sufficiently decentralized and it's safe the goal of eden uh and eos is to be the most decentralized blockchain uh so i believe that if bitcoin and ethereum can be considered safe with three mining pools controlling 51 percent that eos and eden uh should easily clear the hurdle of sufficiently decentralized because i believe the eos is more decentralized than any other blockchain in fact our biggest weakness is we are so decentralized that there is no no central entity that is advocating on behalf of the network uh whereas all the other cryptocurrencies out there have uh foundations that are completely centralized promoting their their networks so um yeah i think we are safe [Music] [Music] that don't contribute at all for the whole community eos community are there any means to restrict their um their power um based on their actual contributions well that's the real trick isn't it how do you hold people accountable to subjective uh contributions to the community and that's the whole point of eden is to create a system that holds people accountable for subjective contributions that's why it's invite only that's why with eden you can be uninvited uh with a jury of your peers um and you can be asked to leave uh and so with you not even guarantee the spot not even i am guaranteed to win the edit election which is evidence of how decentralized and representative eden is it should be possible to create a eosio chain that selects block producers entirely using the eden process instead of token weighted process which would be basically a whole new take on on delegated proof of stake uh because it's not token weighted it's people weighted and it's subjective yet it's still decentralized um the eos network of course would have to have the existing governance structure ratify as a change like that um but i suspect that we have enough incentive and alignment and consensus building to do what's in the best interest of the eos network is so foreign so we have been we have spent one and a half hour um to ask a question um for you um do you have in reverse any question for the korean community um well i always welcome as much feedback as possible on how to improve things i i would like to ask that the korean community reach out to their exchanges and make sure that they are represented in voting on um adios every vote counts and if the exchange won't allow you to vote please withdraw your tokens from the exchange uh and vote for block producers that support the best interest of the network uh i suspect that once the staking pools are here there's gonna be lots of financial incentives to do the same but that's that's my main request of the korean community is to get engaged with the governance of eos uh this is not a a passive thing it requires people and we are all in this for a greater purpose than just speculative gains because blockchain is the promise of independence from the banking system and in financial independence and you only have financial independence when you take control of your tokens from the exchange foreign foreign thank you for joining this early and and talking to the korean community and and we're looking forward for um for the next opportunity as well to to uh communicate more uh with you and in the korean community thanks a lot foreign yep
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